‘If you think I’m a dirty crackhead, that’s fine’: Artists Slawn and Opake talk mistakes and success

Lagos-born Slawn has caused a ruckus in the art world and beyond. He’s designed an F1 car, trainers for Nike, watches for Rolex and redesigned the Wembley tunnel. Every new piece of work sells out instantly. He talks to Opake about their new collaboration for Big Issue.

Opake: Was there a moment that kicked all this stuff off, or was it a graft and a grind?

Slawn: I’ve never met anyone that’s doing what we’re doing, and is even a little bit successful, who didn’t have something they’re running away from. There’s a part of my life I never want to go back to because it was really, really hard at that point. That’s when the [eureka ‘bing’ sound] came and I was like, I can’t go back to that.

Success always comes from a very bad place; that’s one thing I know. Further down the line, tell you some shit and you’re like, yeah, that’s it, something happened to them.

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O: I don’t think I’d be where I am if I hadn’t gone through 15 years of crack addiction and homelessness, and then being thrown into being a dad to a one-year-old boy. Months before that, I’m sleeping on a bench on the platform at Bruce Grove station in Tottenham. 

S: Mile End’s got a nice platform to sleep on, no one disturbed you! I’ve lived that life too. Mine didn’t come from addiction. I was just in a different country and didn’t really know too many people. Someone would go, ‘My girlfriend’s around today,’ and you’re like, OK, cool. I’ll just walk around until it’s sunlight, and as soon as it’s sunlight, I could walk back into someone else’s house and start adjusting myself again. But when you add that in with crack addiction… bro, you gotta give it to crackheads, big grind.

O: Where did the imagery in your work come from?

S: In folklore and history, the jester is a super-important character. So I became fascinated with that. Growing up, in I was in a super-expensive private school, but it was obvious I was different from everyone. I was always trying to make everyone laugh. So I thought I’m kind of like the jester. They could say anything they want to, but it’s taken as a joke, even though it can be serious. My dad used to tell me this story where the jester said, “I’m gonna be king one day.” And everyone laughed. The jester turns his face to the king. Not a single smile on his face, because he knows the power the jester holds. That’s why I started drawing clowns, and I’ve got jesters tattooed all over me. 

And comedians have the power to change the way a whole group of people feels, Everyone’s laughing, and you’re like, ‘Yo, this guy is saying some real shit,’ but then the real conversation starts in the car home. A comedian like Druski seems like he studies psychological behaviour, because of his ability to mimic a stereotype of person. He’s not a comedian anymore. 

No one is a real person in this world. We are all like actors. Deep down, we all wake up and act every day, this is the only time we get to be real – when you’re having a conversation where all cards are on the table, that’s when you start catching the real truths in people’s lives.

O: I feel like having said what I said about myself in the media, it’s out there in the world. I have nothing to hide now, so you can say what the fuck you want about me. If you think I’m a dirty crackhead, that’s fine.

S: That’s so real. Because you’re a survivor, that could have killed you. You’ve gone through the craziest and come out safe. If anyone’s out there judging you for doing what you’ve done in the past, guess what? You made it out. 

O: I feel that as soon as something is labelled with some sort of stigma, then it’s a problem.

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S: Whenever people tell me, “Oh, no, you can’t do that,” I’m like, “Why? I’m gonna do it just to show you that I can.” It becomes a thing of rebellion. It’s not like I’m trying to prove a point. Most of the time, it’s just because I ask people about something and they told me not to do it.

O: Like, the KAWS thing? [Back in August, Slawn shared photos on social media that seemed to suggest he’d collaborated with US artist KAWS, who quickly distanced himself from the post.] What is that? Why do those people care?

S: Yes, exactly like that. When I was gonna do it, everyone was like, oh, no, you shouldn’t. I was like, why? No one told him not to do it. He worked at Disney, his thing is completely different from mine. Mine’s a very watered down, simple version, but it’s still the discourse of what makes you entitled to do something. What achievement do you need for it to be like, OK, you’ve now reached this point. You can do this. 

In Nigeria, if you go and you tap someone and you say, ‘Thief, thief,’ they’ll put him in a tyre and burn him. That’s just an extreme version of what people were doing to me. But it’s cool for people to have an opinion on it.

To be honest, it’s kind of beautiful, because it’s a way for people to band together, to be upset at something, which shows that there’s still some humanity in all of us. If you want to hate on me,
I think that’s sick. Everyone sees the world is so fucked up. Everyone hates each other, but if you can band together to hate me, you can do so much more. I’m trying to explain to all these other artists, this is how you make the money. And they’re like, ‘Oh, well, the collaboration isn’t real.’ Dude, you’re missing the fucking point – It’s not about the collaboration. Do what you want and get the slap on the wrist later.

When I was young, people would tell me, ‘No, don’t walk on the edge of the gutter.’ And I’m like, why? And then I fall in and I hit my head. Then I’m like, OK, it makes sense now, that’s why I shouldn’t do that. 

O: You learn from mistakes.

S: Exactly! That’s why I think everyone should make mistakes all the time. People don’t learn from trying and succeeding completely. I’ve made so many mistakes and every one is just a lesson learned. 

People are so driven by the way they think things should be. Unfortunately for other people, but fortunately for me, I’m living my own reality. My understanding of everything is mine. I take morals and values into consideration. But when it comes to creating, there’s no left, right, up or down for me, everything is circular.

O: So why have we done this collaboration?

S: Because when I met you, I met a genuine person. I don’t collaborate with people that I don’t think are genuine. I don’t care how much money or whatever you’ve got to offer. The work is what comes out from it, but what people don’t get to see is the friendship. It’s not how long I’ve known you, it’s how much I’ve known you, that’s how
I see things. 

O: And why did you want to do hentai? Out of everything we could have done, bro.

S: I’ve never seen hentai as porn. I’ve seen it as an art style. The level of illustration is so insane. I’ve always been fascinated with it. 

Taboo is an interesting concept to me, some people in Africa just walk around naked, if I do that here I’m a mad man. If we make something, and someone questions the reality of what we’ve made, then we’ve all done something together. That’s an activity. I feel like that’s important.

When you can understand something quickly, what’s so interesting about that? Make it. Sell it. Let people have it in their home. 

When people say what the fuck is that or who are these two guys? One of them was a crackhead, and one of them’s a Nigerian scam artist. They’ve come together… imagine someone that’s walked into your house. ‘Why do you have this picture on your wall?’ Well, it’s actually a funny story. A crackhead walks into a bar, and then a Nigerian bastard walks in after him.

O: The story of the Nigerian scam artist and the crackhead, that’s going on the front cover of Big Issue. So what’s your big issue?

S: People putting food in my face. I hate that. Also, I’m not British Nigerian. I’m just Nigerian. 

See more from Slawn on his website.

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